Living Naturally Podcast – The Immune System

Living Naturally Podcast – The Immune System: Audio automatically transcribed by Sonix

Living Naturally Podcast – The Immune System: this mp3 audio file was automatically transcribed by Sonix with the best speech-to-text algorithms. This transcript may contain errors.

Living Naturally Podcast. The Immune System.

Estie Schreiber:
Good morning, it's Estie Schreiber here from Living Naturally, and with me in the studio, I have Dr. David Naude, Homeopath and head of the Medical and Research Department here at SA Natural Products. Good morning, Doctor Dave.

Dr. David Naude:
Good morning Estie.

Estie Schreiber:
The immune system, probably the most important system that the human body has and that people know of today more than ever, ever before. A pandemic is what makes you realize what you have in soldiers in your body in order to stay well. I read that between 1:00 and 3:00 o'clock in the morning when we are sleeping, that is when the immune system goes and resets itself.

Dr. David Naude:
Mm hmm.

Re-calibration of the immune system.

Estie Schreiber:
They said the picture is like a fighter pilots, the fighter pilots go out during the day and they all go into different directions where they've been told to go and they go and do their work, but they can't stay there. They have to come back, they've got to re-calibrate, they've got to reset. They've got to follow up, they've got to get the new plan so they can go and fight again the next day. And that happens in our sleep between one o'clock and three o'clock in the morning. How amazing is that? I never knew that!

Dr. David Naude:
It is because and re-calibration is actually probably the best word, that it also emphasizes how important sleep is. And we know for sure that when you sleep deprived, your immune system becomes compromised. So this is one of the main reasons why that actually takes place. So really important to make sure you have enough sleep every night.

Estie Schreiber:
Yes. And it's not just a 40 winks or a catnap or a quick two or three or four hours sleep. Well, what are you doing to your body? Sleep is not something that is wrong that the body needs to do. And the fact that the adult body needs about eight hours proper sleep a night is not just so that you are rested and have energy for the next day. There's so much that happens in the body, in sleep.

Dr. David Naude:
Absolutely fascinating.

Lifespan of immune cells and the opportunistic nature of viruses and bacteria.

Estie Schreiber:
Something else that I read up is that your immune cells in your body live only for one to two days, 24 to 48 hours. Then the cell dies and a new cell is born. So in other words, what I'm going to be eating or drinking, the stress levels that I find myself under, the things that I apply, the things that I breathe and the experiences I have in life are going to impact in the quality of the immune cells that my body is going to be making. I'm thinking of a person with shingles, for example. They've been through something stressful that's traumatic for them, and then that shingles pops up and it's the immune system that has been unable to deal with the virus that's dormant in the body, and then it wakes up again because the immune system weakens with that stress and it allows that virus to get the ground to wake up and make that person ill with shingles.

Dr. David Naude:
Yeah, exactly. There are a lot of viruses at work on an opportunistic basis. What that means is they will look for an opportunity, i.e. when the body's weak and then they'll activate. So these include viruses that we exposed to all the time, but also includes viruses that are latent or hidden in our body. So the chicken pox virus, as you said, which causes shingles, remains in our body after we've had chicken pox. And then at an opportune moment, it then reactivates in the form of shingles. So stress is one of the triggers of that. But the other viruses that do the same thing, herpes simplex virus is another example. People who get recurring fever blisters, the virus stays in the body and then when they run down or they're stressed or they're being, you know, too much sunlight or they've had a shock or they've had another virus struck after a cold or after flu infection, then the herpes virus comes in and activates. These are opportunistic viruses.

Estie Schreiber:
And TB is a bacteria. But TB also goes and does that. It also lies dormant in the body and it wakes up. So a virus or a bacteria can do that.

Dr. David Naude:
TB is a good example of a bacteria, and many of us based in South Africa have been exposed to TB many, many times. But our immune system keeps it under control and it doesn't activate and is actually something called latent TB in many health care workers have got it. You can detect it if you do tests, but the immune system doesn't allow it to actually activate because they are healthy at that point in time.

Why is it that a child’s immune system is so weak and so susceptible, yet they are not the ones that succumb to the pandemic as much as what the elderly or the or the compromised person is?

Estie Schreiber:
So your immune system, something that lives for 24 to 48 hours and is brand new every two days, that your body is able to deal with pathogens, things externally, things internally that want to harm, hurt, kill the body, literally. That is what we are doing. Your immune system is always fighting for you. It's just a remarkable system of the body to heal and to protect. We are hearing so much about the immune system in children, immune system, in elderly, the immune system in compromised people. We accept and believe that adults that are well, that do not have diabetes. They do not suffer with heart conditions and blood pressure problems, etc., that their immune systems are strong and well, we accept that. And we say a child has a compromised immune system because they are still developing and an elderly person has a compromised immune system because they're getting old. And then we say a person that is overweight or has diabetes or has some form of HIV maybe or suffers with TB, those people are compromised and they are more susceptible to this pandemic that we are finding ourselves in at the moment. Why is it that a child's immune system is so weak and so susceptible, yet they are not the ones that succumb to the pandemic as much as what the elderly or the or the compromised person is?

Dr. David Naude:
It's a very good question because we know that children are more prone to your basic colds and flus and they can get up to 12 respiratory tract infections a year and still be considered normal. And that's because their immune system is still developing. It's still being exposed to new bacteria and viruses. They haven't had antibodies developed yet against these things. So they therefore pick these things up more frequently. And they are also more risk of getting complications from infection so that a viral infection then becomes a secondary sinusitis or bacterial tonsillitis or pneumonia or something like that. So children definitely are vulnerable from from that aspect just because they haven't yet been exposed. But also the body structure is not fully developed. So, for example, the children in a young child, businesses aren't fully developed, so they become congested more easily. They can't cough up flame yet, for example. So there are a lot of factors, physical, structural factors, immune factors in children that influence the infections. But the point about it, you making about, you know, the pandemic that we have now in children, up until recently, children have been relatively exempt. You know, we think the exceptions, of course, but research hasn't quite figured out how they seem more resistant at this point in time. So we know that they don't seem to get covid-19 as much as as adults do and certainly the older adults. But the exact reason for that is it's a bit of a paradox because we we expect the immune systems to be weaker and yet they don't get this virus. So it's a it's probably an exception to the norm. But generally speaking, children are more vulnerable to your more commonly encountered infections.

Why do people become compromised when they get older?

Estie Schreiber:
So the elderly and the compromised person, their immune system, why does a person, when they get all the immune systems weakened? Because they've now lived for 70 years on this planet. They've been exposed to so many pathogens, they've built up antibodies. Why do they become compromised when they get older?

Dr. David Naude:
Ja so remember in your older patient, you have more oxidative damage. There's more they more these systems are often more slightly more inflamed because the regulatory mechanisms that buffer inflammation in older patients are not as strong. So, yes, they've had the exposure and experience from the immune system point of view, but their bodies are more inflamed and their recovery times are slower. So there's other factors that creep in in older patients which are related to degenerative change and the aging process, which now then offset against the immune experience, if you want to call it.

What is it about vitamin D, C and zinc that works on the immune system that helps a person have a stronger immunity?

Estie Schreiber:
I had a beautiful picture told to me many, many, many years ago by a person that tried to explain to me how the body replicates and makes new cells again. And this person explained to me that when you are born, you're born with all the cells of the body requires. And as you are growing and becoming an adult, old cells die, new ones are being born. But the new one that's being born is made from the print of the first one. And then it's from the print of the second one and then the third one. And the fourth one. And so you can't keep on reprinting from the same mold constantly. And later it just wares out. And the cell doesn't have the strength or the figure or the youth as it had when you were younger. And that makes a lot of sense to me because the body needs to know I'm making a red blood cell. How do I make the next one? I'm making a skin cell. How do I make the next one? And it's a replication that's happening. So that is an analogy of ageing that happens. And then we see the person degenerating and getting older. But yes, it's a compromised immune system in children and in your person. It's elderly. Those are the vulnerable people when it comes to immune system problems. So many people say that the immune system reacts very quickly to using certain medications and things. And the world is crazy for vitamin C, vitamin D and zinc at the moment. What is it about those three nutrients that works on the immune system that helps a person have a stronger immunity?

Dr. David Naude:
It's interesting because the everyone's always used vitamin C traditionally everyone's known about vitamin C and to a certain degree about zinc. But the popularity of vitamin D has just become exponential lately, and effectively all three of those substances have immune supportive effects, broadly speaking. So, for example, some of them, and particularly the zinc in your vitamin D and C to a certain degree, actually promote the activation and the action of certain immune cells. Okay, so there are certain immune cells that your body activates when you get an infection and these cells then move and basically eat up a virus or bacteria and remove them from your system. So those three substances can promote the action of some of the immune cells, some of the soldiers, if you want to call it. So you need those nutrients for that action to happen. And that's well-established. That's been known for years. And those three substances, and specifically zinc and C and even D to a certain degree, have some anti-inflammatory effects in the body, which is useful. And of course, C and particularly zinc have antioxidant effects. So you've got a combination of substances that support the immune response, that have a bit of anti-inflammatory action, antioxidant action and is actually studies on certainly on C, D and for example, zinc as well, that show that if you're deficient in these, you at a higher risk of getting infections broadly, OK? So we know deficiency increases your risk of infection if you don't have enough zinc, C and D. So if you put together that together with the fact that they support the immune system and help the immune cells and have that anti-inflammatory effect, these are the go to substances that we know of that are well proven to support the immune response. But their broad acting, they're not specific. They're overall, they help the immune system overall.

Estie Schreiber:
So they're immune supportive?

Dr. David Naude:
Broadspectrum immune, supportive action.

Estie Schreiber:
Now, the quality makes the difference, because in our food we find vitamin C, vitamin D and zinc. People think of vitamin D, just sunlight. People eat fish because fish has vitamin D and vitamin C is found in fresh fruit, fresh vegetables. So it's not that we will easily lack in today's world where food is abundantly found in vitamin C, for example, young people are lacking in vitamin D and if you do blood tests, you will see that people are lacking it. But zinc, you find it in pumpkin seeds and mackerel and sardines, if I remem ber correctly.

Dr. David Naude:
Correct.

Vitamin D, you get D2 and D3. What’s the difference?

Estie Schreiber:
So you can find it in your food. So always look at your nutrition first to make sure that your body is getting what it requires and then the supplementation comes in and if you needed. But when you take vitamin C, the best form that I know of is acerola vitamin C and people are swallowing ascorbic acid, vitamin C, which is just a shell it's not the inside of the the beautiful vitamin C that you need. It's just the shell, rather go and get the best that you can afford. And your vitamin C is your acerola, your vitamin D, you get D2 and D3. What's the difference?

Dr. David Naude:
D2 is predominantly produced. Well how they produce it is from certain yeasts and fungi and they expose them to the violet light and then they produce them in that way. But your D3 is your more common form of vitamin D in mammalian cells, so you add to your find in those other sources. But D3 is the ideal one you want to supplement.

Estie Schreiber:
And In what quantity doctor Dave?

Dr. David Naude:
So this is just the thing. People are running out and buying these things and as long as they are taking something, they're happy. They're not really looking, am I taking enough or am I taking too much? Interestingly, on D, the research shows that for the best immune effect from vitamin D, you actually want smaller quantities more often because you can buy vitamin D over the counter in various strengths up to a certain point, and then you need a prescription. So people are running for these megadoses and doctors are often prescribing these mega doses of vitamin D, which are just too much at once for your body to take. So research shows you need smaller quantities more frequently. So, you know, over the counter you can easily buy up to 1000 international units of vitamin D and but most commonly you'll find 400. So you would want to rather be taking 400 international units every day long term, as opposed to bombing away with 25000 international units once a week. So you have to look at this at the levels,

Estie Schreiber:
Because vitamin D is also something that the body stores fat soluble and the body holds it the liver holds it.

Dr. David Naude:
You can't take mega doses of vitamin D long term.

Estie Schreiber:
No!

Dr. David Naude:
Because your levels can go to high.

Estie Schreiber:
Yes.

Taking the right quantities if you are found to be deficient in vitamin D.

Dr. David Naude:
So you have to make sure you're taking the right quantities if you are found to be deficient in D, and this is fairly common, then of course you need higher levels to get your levels up quickly. But once you levels reach the optimum point, you don't carry on with mega dosing. So you have to be sure and if it's something that you haven't had measured, I would recommend that you go out and measure vitamin D if you are someone who's prone to low D, which we see in practice, this is actually very, very common even in South Africa, where we have a lot of sunlight. You need to know what your vitamin D levels do. And it might be a supplement that you need to take more often than you think for other reasons as well besides immune system.

Estie Schreiber:
Unlike vitamin C, that the body will use what it can and the rest it can't, it lets go off, and that's why when people use extra mega doses of vitamin C, they get diarrhoea from it, because the body can't absorb it and it causes a loose stool. So your body will get rid of it. With vitamin D, your body is going to store. So please don't just treat yourself, especially when it comes to vitamin D, go and see your practitioner, have a blood test and determine what your levels are and know what quantity to use for what period of time. I know for myself; once a year, for three months of the year, I use a vitamin D and my D3 and that stores enough for the rest of the year for me. Just a three month period of using it constantly is what is enough for my body. So determine what is your body. But I did this through seeing a practitioner to help me to do it. And then the zinc. What quantity of zinc is the best that people should be using?

Dr. David Naude:
So the best quality for a lot of the minerals to assist with absorption is keylated or pignolate. So zinc pignolate is one of the forms that are quite good. But a keylated zinc also enhances absorption. So there are various types, it's the same with iron and and other minerals. The format that y ou buy it in affects how much your body can absorb.

Antiviral is so important for the immune system

Estie Schreiber:
So that's vitamin C, D and zinc. That's what everybody is running to and thinking of. But what they're forgetting, it's just immune support and it's not antiviral. And antiviral is so important for the immune system, especially in today's world. We are not just exposed to the coronavirus as a virus. We are exposed to numerous different viruses. I'm thinking of measles, chicken pox, the shingles virus, the herpes virus, HIV virus, the viruses that are around. And we need something that's antiviral. Now, the vaccine is what we're all hoping for is going to happen. And we we're looking at that as being the answer to dealing with this, how it's going to work, time will tell. Scientists are busy working on that. But in the interim, what we do know is that it Echinacea has an incredible ability to be antiviral for numerous types of viruses. Now, when you think of your immune system, immune system is busy fighting and know those all those cells that have to come back between one o'clock and three o'clock in the morning to come and re-calibrate, they need to know whether they are fighting an organism in the body that has a membrane or that is attacking the airways or is attacking the gut in the body or is attacking the skin because there's been an invader coming through the skin through a bee sting. They need to know what is happening. And indifferent invaders, they look different. Some of them are bacteria, some of them are viruses that have a membrane, and some of them are viruses that don't have a membrane? Do you get viruses that don't have a membrane? So you get what they call an envelope virus and that is what the coronavirus is. It has a membrane?

Dr. David Naude:
Correct.

Estie Schreiber:
And that is what makes it so difficult to get to because this membrane sits there and it's intact. And when you give it just any form of antiviral, it can't always penetrate.

Dr. David Naude:
Yes.

Estie Schreiber:
Where Echinacea has been shown in numerous studies that it has the ability to open up a membraneous virus.

Dr. David Naude:
Particularly membranous viruses. If you look at the trials on Echinacea, some of the studies have looked in a lab setting. Some have actually been done, obviously, on human patients, and they've measured the protective effects of Echinacea and they specifically have found the protective effect against viruses seems to be concentrated around these membranous viruses. And that also includes influenza, which is a membranous virus includes herpes simplex, which is a membranous virus, your Corona family are all membranous. So rhinovirus is a lot of common viruses that are membranous viruses.

Estie Schreiber:
And rhinovirus is your common cold?

Dr. David Naude:
Correct. So that's responsible for many of your basic common colds. But even the corona has a common cold virus in the family which causes common colds. So these membranous group of viruses seem to be particularly sensitive and particularly vulnerable to Echinacea. And that's been proven in a number of studies.

Echinacea is also antiviral

Estie Schreiber:
For many years and over many years. If vitamin C, D and Zinc is there to support your immune system, to know how to fight and when to fight. Echinacea is there to not just also support the immune system because it has that characteristic as well, but it's also antiviral.

Dr. David Naude:
Exactly. So you have something in Echinacea, you have a substance or Echinacea itself is going to have the immune modulating effect. Not stimulating or boosting, but balancing and supporting. So that's what we use the word modulate, it's scientifically shown to have a modulating effect on the immune system to help it when it's necessary to help it fight a battle when infection under those conditions. And then, of course, the antiviral effect against membranous viruses. So it's been shown to directly kill membranous virus. We call this virucidel, meaning it kills a virus. But it also has been shown to stop a virus from entering your cells. So when a virus infects your body, it first has to attach using receptors to your human cells. And once it attaches, it can then inject. It's it's it's genetic material into your cell, which then makes copies and copies and copies inside your cells.

Estie Schreiber:
And that's how it spreads.

Dr. David Naude:
That's how it spread.

Estie Schreiber:
It needs your cell to do that with.

Dr. David Naude:
Exactly. So the Echinacea prevents the membranous virus from actually attaching to your host cell and gaining entry, as well as killing it directly on contact. So you have a direct antiviral effect with Echinacea. Plus you have the immune balancing, immune supporting effects. So if you were to compare and contrast your vitamin C and your D's and your Zink's, they having an immune supportive effect, broad-spectrum where something like Echinacea has got the immune supportive effect, plus the antiviral effect in one product.

A.Vogel Echinaforce research.

Estie Schreiber:
Absolutely brilliant. And we can give this to adults, we can give this to children, we can give it to pregnant women. We can give it to the elderly, we can give it to people that are on warfarin and other medication. We can give it to diabetics. It is a safe, beautiful herb to do it with. Now in the stable of Living Naturally, we have the brand, A.Vogel Echinaforce and A.Vogel's Echinaforce is made from your fresh plant extract. It is the best research echinacea product in the world. In the late 1980s, beginning 1990s, the first research has been done and one day a doctor asked me the question; he said, if you know so much about it already, why are you continuously researching it? And my answer to him was because inside this product is not one ingredient like what you would find when you are taking, for example, a paracetamol. Or it has two ingredients, if you are taking a anti-inflammatory with paracetamol for pain in your body. Those are two ingredients things. Inside echinacea you've got thousands of different ingredients. Some of them have not even been identified by scientists yet. A plant comes with a completeness is there's a whole lot of things in it, not just one thing. And and and echinacea has been found in these studies. What they are doing, they are exposing more and more about the plant that we are now learning about as time goes by, because one study follows on another. And so if it's antibacterial, what will it do then if I use it in this way? If it's an antiviral, what would it do if I actually have a virus in my body, and how will I be able to prevent? How severe would a child be ill? And so the research is just continuing on the Echinaforce from A.Vogel. The difference between this echinacea and any other echinacea that you find on the shelves is the fact that A.Vogel Echinaforce is made from the fresh plant extract of one echinacea only, and that is the echinacea purpurea you get different varieties of echinacea. There is angustifolia is pallida, and then there is this purpurea. The purple is the one that shows the most medicinal value. And interesting that the plant in its totality is required in order to get the effect that we need from the roots to the stems, to the leaves, to the flowers, everything of the plant. It's not just one part of it. It's the whole plant that needs to be extracted and freshly. So from the moment of harvest until the product is complete is less than 24 hours. And it is made in Switzerland, at the factory of A.Vogel, it was Dr. Vogel's most beloved product that he ever had. It was his most trusted product and it was the product that he gave first to every single patient that came to see him at his clinic. And the reason for it is because he said; if a person's immune system is strong and healthy and knows how to respond when there is an invader to protect and heal the body, the rest follows. The liver, the kidneys, the heart, the lungs, the digestive system. It all follows. It starts with a strong, healthy immune system. He called the immune system of the body "The vital force". I love that word because it encompasses so much more than just our fighters in our body, our security in our body. It is the totality of a person's wellbeing is the vital force. And you will say. That child is well, they've got a healthy appetite. They sleep when I go to bed and they put their head down within a minute or two, they fast asleep, they sleep throughout the night. They don't have a problem with bowel movements. They don't have a snotty nose. They they don't have a skin condition. They are healthy. They are full of energy. They, you can see the wellness oozing from every part of their being. That's vital force. When a person doesn't have vitality, they don't have appetite. They battled to sleep. They susceptible to infections easily. Your immune system and your vital force are interconnected with one another. And this product, A.Vogel Echinaforce is just absolutely brilliant in being that protector of the body and to help the body to fight when it needs to fight and know how to do it. And it's so wonderful to know that this research exists for younger, for all that we can use Echinaforce as a prevention and as treatment because it's antiviral and its immune support. We can take a daily once or twice a day to keep the immune system strong and well, and we would take it more often. I know of people that use a product hourly when they are ill and they recover so much quicker with so much less complications. Those complications are sinusitis, otitis, tonsillitis, bronchitis, pneumonia, all those other complications that come from upper respiratory tract infections. So this is your armor first! I wish the world would know that echinacea, your Echinaforce comes first with your good nutrition, lots of water, sleeping properly. Those are all the factors that will help you to have a healthy and strong immune system. And then lastly, just to touch on; the gut health. Your gut is the area where… how much?

Why is gut health so important?

Dr. David Naude:
70 per cent, maybe more?

Estie Schreiber:
Of what?

Dr. David Naude:
Of all your immune cells are found in your gut in your intestine.

Estie Schreiber:
Why?

Dr. David Naude:
Well, there are a number of reasons. The… just think about your your gut is exposed to things from the outside. If you think about the food you eat, most of the time, the food we eat is not 100 per cent sterile, especially children putting things in their mouths. So your intestine is almost an inner skin if you think about it, and therefore it needs to be protected. Remember, your intestine is not covered with many layers of skin cells like your body is on the outside. It's vulnerable, so it needs all that immune tissue to protect you. The inside of your body at the first point of contact with food, which would be be putting in. So about 70 per cent of all the immune cells are sitting in the intestine. And therefore, if the gut is not well, if the bacteria that normally normally live in the intestine, something we call the Microbiome, is out of balance, it directly affects your immune system and therefore you can become vulnerable to even a respiratory tract infection because immune cells in your intestine are out of balance. So it's really important to make sure that the immune system in the gut is is correct. And it's one of the first things I ask patients who have recurring infections is what is your digestive system like? What is your bowel habit like? Eghm, how well do you digest your food? What is your diet like? So you have to make sure that gut health is in place. It's one of the keys to supporting your immune system in general.

Why is diet important ?

Estie Schreiber:
You see how important it is to ensure that what you are eating and drinking every day is helping your body build healthy cells constantly and making your body, giving your body that energy it needs to be well, and for you to live your life in abundance and with with a healthy body. It comes down to the choices that we make each and every single one of us daily. So, as Dr Vogel said, good nutrition. You can't better good nutrition. Good nutrition is what the earth gives us. If you can't harvest it, you should not be eating it. If you can't make it in your kitchen from what you've harvested, you should not be eating it. I'm thinking of the butter and the margarine debate, which we should have one day. If I go and take cream and I turn it, I can make butter in my own kitchen. It's easy, but I cannot make margarine in my kitchen. It's just not possible for me. I can go and harvest that sugar cane and I can squeeze out the juice and I can chew it and it's delicious. I remember as a child doing that and just that sweetness that you get from it. Did God make a mistake when he gave us sugar cane? Not at all. But it has to go through a factory in order to make it into a sugar because you can't make it into sugar in your own kitchen.

Estie Schreiber:
We don't have the ability to do that. So that's not something that we should be consuming. But if it's natural and it comes from nature and I can make it in my kitchen, gladly! We can make molasses in our kitchen, that is possible. We can make our own barley malt in our kitchen, that's possible. Honey, we can harvest. That's a beautiful thing. And I always say to my family, you can pick off pudding of the tree. Who does not love the Mangoes that are in season and the Litchies? That is literally pudding off a tree! And that fresh Pineapple that is ripe, so sweetness is something the body loves as well, we crave it, we like the taste of sweetness. But get it from nature. So that's what you want to give your body as healthy nutrition in order to be well so that you can make healthy new cells. So your immune system is asking for water, is asking for sleep, it's asking for good nutrition. And inside that nutrition, you find your vitamin C, your vitamin D and your Zinc. And if you feel you need to go and supplement with extra, make sure it's the right quality. It's the acerola vitaminC, it's a vitamin D3 in the right quantity from a good source that the zinc is chelated, it's key piggalate, but most importantly, your Echinaforce from A.Vogel is your armor for your body. It is your fighter in your body, when you need it!

How should we be taking A.Vogel Echinaforce?

Estie Schreiber:
Take it once or twice a day to stay well, take it more often if you're ill, you can give it to anybody at any age. It's available in tablets and liquid and it is available in a junior. It's even available in a spray bottle, something it's handy to have in your handbag before you walk into a shop, into an area with lots of people, put two or three sprays in the back of your throat to protect your body. And when you come out of the shop, spray again. That way you are protecting your body. Does this stop you from getting sick? It reduces it! The possibility. Nothing on earth can say 100% you never going to get sick. That does not exist on this planet. But yeah, feed your immune system will take care of it. It is a system of your body that is taking care of you irrespective of who you are and where you are. I am forever grateful for my mom for teaching us as a family what she taught us about how natural medicine and following a living naturally way of life can enhance quality of life and make life so much better on this earth because it is not easy living on planet Earth. There is so much that wants to attack us and attack one another. And the things that are invisible to us, like the pathogens and what's happening on this Earth at the moment, I'm very, very grateful for the knowledge that I have of natural medicine and understanding nutrition and the importance of water and the balance of the body daily. And in the same breath. I'm extremely grateful for a person like Dr. Alfred Vogel for the work that he did for us for those 94 years that he lived on planet Earth. We he brought us these beautiful products and he put down a standard. Dr. Vogel put on a standard for us about what the quality needs to be of the products that has his name on it. That it will always be fresh plant, and it will always be the best quality. And if you can't, then the product is not available until you can get it. It is no such thing as second best. There's no such thing as compromising. It is the best or nothing at all that was the Vogal way. And it's something that is adhered to at A.Vogel in Switzerland. They work with the best products.

Is it possible that the human body can become resistant to Echinacea and viruses?

Estie Schreiber:
Now, when it comes to Echinacea, many people will say to you, can't you become resistant to it? Like a virus can become resistant to antivirals that are chemically made? Is it possible that the human body can become resistant to Echinacea and viruses?

Dr. David Naude:
It's a significantly greater challenge. The reason is plant medicines are so complex. When you analyze what's inside a plant medicine, the hundreds of different molecules and substances in there, each one is doing something. Unlike an orthodox drug where you have a molecule. And when a drug company makes a new medicine, they patent a molecule. So it's one molecule that does a certain thing in the body. And you can imagine something like a virus or bacteria for that matter. But we'll talk viruses now. A virus comes into contact with that molecule. It recognizes that molecule. The molecule kills off the virus. Some of the virus, some get away and carry on reproducing. But repeated exposure to that same molecule, the virus has learned how to deal with that molecule. It's a simple structure and that in that way, the virus learns how to adapt and mutates in order to bypass the effect of that single molecule. Now you take a plant medicine like Echinacea with hundreds and hundreds of different molecules and substances. Can you see how much more difficult it is for a virus to become resistant to such a complex substance as opposed to a single molecule? So researchers investigated what are the molecules in Echinacea? And Alkilemites are one of the major ones that we know about, but there are many, many others. And actual studies on the influenza virus have shown that repeated exposure to Echinacea and it was Echinaforce in this in this specific case, the virus could not mutate and adapt and get away from the effect of the Echinaforce. However, when they used a well known antiviral drug, after one or two treatments, the virus quickly became resistant to that drug, but repeated exposure to Echinacea and Echinaforce the virus was unable to mutate and unable to become resistant. And that's because of the complex nature.

Estie Schreiber:
Absolutely brilliant. I'm reminded of the words of Dr. Vogel where he said; In nature, we find everything to help us to live a healthy life on this planet. Dr. Dave, thank you very much for sharing your insight into the immune system, especially on C,D and zinc and how that will affect and where they fit and why. But also on the Echinacea, that antiviral, the fact that it's viricidal antiviral and immune support, that is insightful and it's something that's so needed in today's world. We need to find hope and we can give people hope of understanding their immune system better. So thank you very much for this information.

Dr. David Naude:
Absolute pleasure.

Estie Schreiber:
From myself, Estie Schreiber from Living Naturally, and Dr. David Naude, head of the Medical Research Department of SA Natural Products and a practicing homeopath, we say goodbye until next time.

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